Interview with Dr. Rudolf Aschenauer, defense attorney for many German soldiers and officials accused of war crimes. Aschenauer was a member of the SA and NSDAP and also served on the Eastern Front during WWII in the Wehrmacht. Some of the questions were done by Inge Mckean who was writing for Nation und Europa. The other questions are from small talk by our main interviewer Brian. Nuremberg, 1980/81.

[Above: Chief prosecutor Benjamin Ferencz presents documents as evidence at the Einsatzgruppen Trial.
Ferencz is flanked by German defense lawyers, Dr. Rudolf Aschenauer, right, attorney for defendant Otto Ohlendorf
and Dr. Friedrich Bergold, left, attorney for defendent Ernst Biberstein.]

Inge: You served Germany on the Eastern Front during the war; did this service influence your political world view?

Rudolf: My mind was already made up as far as my views by living in Germany before National Socialism. I saw what can only be described as chaos and a people losing their moral will. I saw the Red war on the people and the church. That was all settled in 1933 because the people wanted to be done with chaos. All that serving in the east did was reinforce why we had to be there. The Soviet system had turned Russia into a giant slave state where everything was taken by the state and no one had any personal property. The people who once were well-off were either killed off or made poor.

It was with pleasure that I saw a return of Christian values to Russia once we removed the Soviets and those who supported them. Orthodox priests came out of exile and hiding and rebuilt Churches the Bolsheviks turned vacant or into barns. Synagogues were left alone of course, and thrived during their rule. I saw the genuine love the people had in their hearts for what we brought them.

The sad irony was Soviet propaganda convinced the masses that we came to kill, so it created hate in the hearts of those who fought us. This began very early on, and this is why there were crimes committed against our forces. This in turn begat reprisals that our men were later charged for and affected those who witnessed them in a bad way. Some understood the reasons, but others did not.

I was able to understand how Jews had fought to create this state, also controlled by them. They turned and revolted against a people they hated, in so doing committed many acts of terror on the Russian people. When our armies crossed into the Soviet Union there were many attacks on Jews that we had to stop. Many of the Soviet soldiers who surrendered to us volunteered to aid us in destroying a system they felt was not Russian. Eastern legions are something never spoken of today and ignored by history. Of course when captured Stalin had them all killed, and then blamed the deaths on Hitler’s policies.

Seeing what I saw only convinced me of the good of our fight, and the need to forever destroy this pestilence of Marx and Lenin. All of this Cold War would have been avoided had we been given a free hand in the east. So many lives would have been saved. The Soviet system has murdered countless millions and yet not a word about it in the press. What they did to our prisoners of war and people is not spoken of, the press just brushes it off as if we deserved it, it was retribution. I will not buy into their propaganda; I know our soldiers behaved correctly as I was there.

[Above: A suave Russian volunteer.]

Inge: You have helped us with many veterans who have been cast away by the Federal Republic, do you one day see hope for redemption?

Rudolf: If more of our people become involved in demanding justice for them, then yes I do. It is a scandal how the men who only served their nation in a time of war have been labeled and treated. The former Waffen-SS was nothing more than a branch of the Wehrmacht who was an all volunteer force.

They received praise from army commanders and their enemies, nowhere else in history has an army been raised from so many different nations, all with the goal of ending Red terror. I have said it before and will say it to the day I leave, they fought for a free Europe.

I have dedicated myself, at great risk, to help the innocent whom have had their lives ruined by vendettas and false claims. It is always an uphill fight, as the justice system was controlled by jurors who were not impartial. This is why so many chose to flee post war, and we aided them in that endeavor. I hope it is all put to bed now, but there are those still trying to keep the fires of hate going. I am grateful I was able to put my effort into aiding those who went on to have good lives, far away, in peace.

Inge: In regards to the Allied charges that the Waffen-SS committed war crimes on a scale never seen before, how did you react when asked to defend the men?

Rudolf: When I was approached in the prosecutor’s office and asked if I could lend a hand in reviewing cases, I was interested. I went into these cases with an open mind that perhaps in the SS it was permitted to harshly treat enemies. Once I started looking at the facts, and speaking with the accused, I came to a conclusion that all were innocent. All tribunals utilized rules and language that made opposing the validity of the accusations forbidden, the events could not be questioned. For example, one could not mount a defense that the supposed event was exaggerated or never happened; instead we had to defend why it was moral to commit the act.

To give you an example of what we were up against: the Soviets prosecuted all claims made by the Iron Curtain nations. They would present a case, for example, where witness A testified they saw German troops remove all of the inhabitants of village B. The inhabitants were never seen again, and bodies were found nearby.

There was no way to use forensics, take photos, or interview witnesses; we had to defend the commanders who were in the area at the time. Sometimes individuals would be brought forth who were said to have rounded the people up. We were forced to then defend a false narrative that whenever villagers were removed they were all killed to the last person.

The defense had only standing military or occupation orders with which to defend the men, by saying they only followed the orders they had been given. In part, we were saying yes, they committed these acts but it was only because they had been given orders to do so. This was the travesty of the Allied judicial process. On top of that, and we have spoken of this before, the interrogation methods used to extract information are horrendous. Many of the young boys at Schwabish Hall were subjected to sadistic treatment by mainly Jewish interrogators. Some of the more evil ones were Perl, Ellowitz, Thon, and Finkel.

These men, many of whom chose to leave the Reich, returned with a vengeance rivaling the Mongols. I saw the abuse with my own eyes, but the judges mostly dismissed these claims. It took getting fair politicians involved for any justice to be done. However the damage had been done, many hundreds of innocent men went to the gallows.

The Western Allies showed they could be just as abusive and hateful as the Soviets. They prevented us from presenting rational arguments for the alleged crimes, all of which were not crimes at all. They linked actions against partisans and spies, to illegal reprisals, many of which the Allies committed as well. We had evidence that the Americans, Soviets, British, and French all had used reprisals against their enemies as a way to stop resistance.

German forces had to do this at times, and it was all lawful orders that were meant to destroy cells of resistance and break the strength of well organized groups who were supplied by the Allies. They fought without uniforms or any identifying markings, and often used brutal tactics which were shocking to even front-line soldiers.

Several of the incidences regarding shooting prisoners of war are false, and just plain misfortunes. An example is the so-called Malmedy Massacre. The spearhead of Peiper's group caught Americans by surprise, subdued them with quick action, and moved them into an area to be watched.

In the meantime shooting started by a newly arrived American patrol, which emboldened some in the rear to start retrieving weapons and running away. Shots were fired at the German guards who returned fire. In return, newly arriving soldiers saw the prisoners breaking away and opened fire on them all, even ones standing still.

During the process none of this could be brought up so the defense had only to work with showing the accused were not at said location at said time. It is an example of a crime being made up because soldiers were shot, but the explanation of why soldiers were shot was barred. The media had a great lie to work with.

I started to take the defense of these men personal, as I saw innocent men being charged with severe crimes, and yet no one would listen to reason. There was no joy in the men having to do their duty, which at times was brutal. However the reasons why they had to do such things were never allowed to be debated. As sentiments died down, we were able to get many favorable judgments as many began to see the sham that was the military tribunals. Many saw it as a hateful vendetta largely waged by former Jewish citizens of the Reich, and their Red brethren. To this day we still see them trying to go after men who only did their duty, and followed the laws and orders that were legal at the time.

As our culture becomes more non-German and pro-western we open ourselves up to be further plundered by Israel and other nations who demand we pay monies for supposed crimes. Something new I have noticed is the claims pertaining to looted art. Jews who sold pieces legally are now claiming they were stolen under duress. They are getting millions of marks in reparations by making false claims and also getting the art back, what shysters.

I see there are also claims stating art was looted, how embarrassed they would be to know it was being stored in safe areas so that the Allies did not destroy it in their bombings. I personally saw our security people and curators work with the French to save priceless treasures from Allied bombs. Just because some were brought to safe areas of Germany does not mean there was intent to steal. If people had sold or put up for sale works taken out of occupied areas that would be different. We did nothing of the sort; we only put them in places that were guarded for safe keeping, along with German works.

[Above: Smug American soldiers holding artwork said to be stolen by the Germans. In a stupendous act of irony the Allies turned around and looted every single thing they could find in Germany and other Axis countries. They literally took apart entire factories, brick by brick, and reassembled them in their home countries. They even stole all of Germany's patents and went so far as to kidnap every scientist they could get their hands on. All of this madness is very, very common though in just about everything involving WWII. The Americans, British and their communist allies blamed the Germans for everything that they in fact were guilty of.]

I understand you met and knew Judge Roland Freisler?

Rudolf: Yes I did, while doing studies I was taken to Berlin to attend trials and met him at a banquet held for us. I found him to be very intellectual and sharp with law. His mark is still with us in some of the law he helped write. Of course the media says nothing of this.

He wrote many laws into the record that were very humane. One of them was a decree that the police could not use batons on the people; he thought it was demeaning to the German people. He eased gun laws, imposed by Weimar, so that any German citizen could own one.

At the same time he saw that the problem was not first time law breakers, but habitual ones, these were given chances to correct themselves, and if they did not, a labor camp was their reward. This protected Germans from those who preyed on the people without let up.

Something I know that many do not is that he died from a bombing raid. He was helping women who were lost; they were in court as family of an accused person. This was told to me by a clerk who had to help treat them once it was safe.

The Allied puppets who own our media love to cast him as a crazy, fanatic jurist, but in truth he was passionate about law, and humane. I have nothing bad I can say about him, he may have been loud and crass but he upheld jurisprudence and had no fear in punishing those who knowingly broke the law.

[Above: The great Judge Roland Freisler. A man of integrity, loyalty, sharp intellect and judicial fairness.]

Do you think any of the men whom you defended were ever guilty of the crimes they were accused of?

Rudolf: I am of the opinion that, considering the circumstances, and the totality of the evidence, no. From what I saw the cases presented were a mixture of circumstantial evidence, contrived testimony, to forced confessions. It is my opinion that these men acted correctly given the circumstances they were in. They were tasked to fight a war for the very survival of our homeland, and their reward was punishment.

They had many enemies to combat, the worst being the hidden partisan fighters. Also the foolishness of some people at war's end caused rushed reprisals, one of which I defended. Men stopped and forcefully disarmed a Hitler Youth squad that was under military orders. They berated them that they should give up and the war was lost. They took their weapons and destroyed them by throwing them in a pond.

Because these men did not want their town fired on they chose to force the Hitler Youth soldiers to leave and not be close by. That is treason and would get you a rope in any army. When reported, the guilty were searched out; only one was arrested, and three executed for interfering in lawful military orders. It sounds ridiculous to speak of but at war's end people sided with the enemy out of fear and terror, turning on their own.

If they did not threaten the boys with force, and disarm them of weapons by force it would have been let go. The men acted as judges in an unlawful way, in a time of war and had helpers who refused to cooperate with legal orders.

The Allies have made heroes out of cowards and shirkers, and criminals out of heroes and brave men. In not one case did I ever think to myself that this man went too far, he was a loose cannon with bad intentions. I never saw that, I only saw men who were doing their duty in the hardest of times.

Their enemies then exaggerated instances of legal reprisals or allowed false claims to be brought. The lack of due diligence was astounding. Never before in all of law has the procedural rules been so twisted to conform to one side. It was made to look so legal, yet was rife with flaws.

When you had a small village of twenty, and all had illegal weapons or material, then all become guilty and fall under the directives for punishment. German forces were quite proactive in warning the people that certain actions would bring severe consequences. When they ignored these warnings, it could only be seen as intentional and with malice. Something to say on this as well is that these actions rarely happened. In most all cases soldiers just confiscated the items and went on their way. It was only when a killing of a soldier was involved that reprisals were ordered.

[Above: The handsome and intelligent Otto Ohlendorf, before and after Allied kidnapping. Dr. Rudolf Aschenauer was the attorney for defendant Otto Ohlendorf. Ohlendorf was an SS-Gruppenführer for Einsatzgruppe D during the war. The Allies heaped atrocity lies on the Einsatzgruppe and he was predictably sentenced to death in April 1948 and spent three years in a dungeon before being hanged at the Landsberg Prison on June 7, 1951. A martyr in a sea of other martyrs, whom all free men and women around the world will never forget.]

[Above: A copy of a booklet of Nuremberg trial indictments, signed and stamped by Dr. Rudolf Aschenauer.]

Back to Interviews