This 1987 interview (done in Munich) is with former Gauleiter Rudolf Jordan

Thanks for meeting with me; I would like to ask you about your time and experiences during the Third German Reich, and the war. What attracted you to join the NSDAP?

Rudolf: To understand the good old days, you must know Germany’s history; we are a proud people who always wanted to do the right things in life, and to be happy. We just went through one of the hardest wars up to that time. The first war drained us of fathers, husbands, sons, and many more died after due to the English blockade. We were fearful, angry, poor, and hungry. On top of this, the allies fed off us like wolves, taking what little we had left. Our new government did nothing to fix the problems; they got fat and slothful off their people.

Hitler and a few others saw this, and confronted the problems head on, bravely and fearlessly. They knew what had to be done and rallied the German people to defend themselves and stand up, awaked, and with a cause. I saw in the Weimar Republic a society that was ran almost entirely by Jews. They told us in their press that Jews were humble, peaceful, patriotic, and poor. Yet our reality was, and we knew how to identify a Jew by their names, features, and skin tone, that Jews were in almost all high positions of society. They were only a small percentage of the population, but in some professions, 50% or more were Jews.

This was unacceptable, as they were an alien people who came to us, we did not come to them. Hitler saw the problem and pointed out what we already knew; he gave us the courage to say what was not popular. I was already a nationalist, so naturally when I heard him speak I knew the NSDAP was the larger party, so I joined and asked what I could do to help free Germany. I was attracted to join because in my heart I knew he was right, and we had to be tough as the enemy was well entrenched in Germany.

With all the crimes National Socialism stands accused of committing how do you justify being loyal to this idea when so many tell horror stories about what it was like?

Rudolf: Yes, I know, we appear as beasts and war lovers, Jew haters, and baby killers. We persecuted the church, gypsies, peace lovers, and non-Aryans. We killed the sick, poor, and non-conformists.

There is no way to defend against these accusations, as the victors of the war have gone to great lengths to prove the case that Hitler had to go and they fought and won a war against an evil regime. I know I can tell you the truth without going to jail. My firm belief is when it is finished; we will all stand before the Creator and be blameless. He, and He alone can judge us, and then it will be known that we did nothing that the victors of the last war accused us of doing. The Jews in Germany were removed if they did anything to oppose us, many Jews stayed and served the Reich. The problem was so many chose to be our enemies because we pointed out they were taking advantage of us.

It would take me a very long time to tell you how they lied, and how they use pictures, forced confessions, torture, and false witnesses to convict us all. I was there, I saw firsthand what happened, I even had a hand in making very big decisions, along with the Fuhrer, and I know what the truth is. I cannot tell the truth to people today, I would most likely face persecution in the Federal Republic. Therefore, when you say crimes, I say lies. Anything we did that may look like a crime was a justified response to something that happened to us.

What about the concentration camps? This seems to be the main reasoning for Hitler being an evil leader.

Rudolf: Ah, it always seems to come down to the camps. There are many myths and lies regarding the camps. I saw many of them up close and personal and spoke with prisoners on more than one occasion. Maybe an easy way to explain why is to compare your country to ours in the war. The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, and were rounded up and put in camps, you called them relocation camps. Many people do not know that in 1933, when the Fuhrer started to remove Jews form powerful positions, that the world Jewish congress declared a war on Germany. Now, what did this mean? Jews for the most part ignored this; however, there were fanatics who took this to heart.

There were attacks on NSDAP members, politicians assassinated, fires started, and Jews worked openly to discredit and humiliate the Fuhrer. Due to this, when they were caught, they were sent to camps if they could not afford to go to another country. Many nations refused to take any more Jews, as deep down they knew what that meant. Therefore, from 1933 when we gained power we had to fight elements bent on destroying what we worked so hard to build, anyone who committed crimes against us we sent to camps to get them out of society, but also with an eye to rehabilitate them to our way of thinking, or at least to immigrate away.

The camps started as a way for us to remove the elements in society that did not want to belong to our society. Our goals being to have them eventually immigrate to a nation who would take them. We engaged with the Zionists to accomplish this, sometimes they paid to get prisoners a new country to live in, until a Jewish homeland could be decided on. Eichmann went to Palestine to work with them to affect a final solution to the Jewish problem so future generations would not have this issue. Then they hanged him for only trying to help them work out a sensible solution that all agreed on. Shameful.

All of the photos and movies you see today that show rows of dead, the very sick and skinny, the ovens, and the executions all have explanations that the allies ignored or covered up. Sadly, by the end of the war, the allies caused many of the deaths in Belsen and other sick prisoner camps. Their very deliberate act of destroying all of our towns and cities destroyed the very things the prisoners needed to keep them healthy and fed. Germany was in such chaos in the final two months of the war, that in some camps typhus got out of control, even in Dachau a train carrying inmates from the eat was attacked by allied planes, killing many sick prisoners, and they could not be unloaded and buried before the allies found them. Then the allies killed innocent soldiers who happened to be by the camp. This is what I want to point out.

There was no state policy to kill anyone, we wanted most Jews removed to the east, and for the most part all camps were large work camps, where prisoners were expected to help the war effort. Prisoners did die in the camps due to sickness and Auschwitz had a bad epidemic hit, I believe in 42 or 43 and that is why ovens were installed to dispose of any bodies, as they could not be buried in the wet soil, which would contaminate the water source. Again, I say with a clear conscience, we did not intend or plan to kill anyone as a policy.

How did you become a Gauleiter?

Rudolf: The Fuhrer appointed me to the office. From the very beginning of the party, I worked tirelessly to awaken our people. I started out from humble beginnings, but once I was committed to give all I had to the people I came from, I took a leadership role that attracted attention. I was dismissed from a teaching career due to this. Jews were in several high positions in my school district, and once they found out I was in the NSDAP I was targeted and asked to resign, I could not put this in my book. We started out as a very small party, outnumbered, and underfunded, but this did not last very long.

I joined the SA, and became active in countering the arguments against the NS platform. I worked with Rohm, Dr. Goebbels, Himmler, and many others. I was put in charge of my home gau, as I knew the people and earned their trust. I can say that by 1929 I knew we would win, in spite of all the attacks against us, the people heard us, and knew we were right. Our enemies tried every tactic to silence us, from monetary boycotts, violence, and defaming us in the press, they failed to stop the will of the people. I kept our fight honest and unified, I always used the phrase we are fighting for only one nation, not many, only one people not a mixture of peoples, and one leader not a jumbled lot of leaders all fighting for the top spot.

Our party had lots of infighting as many people thought they should be chief leader, but we quickly dealt with these types in a positive way that gave them a path to leadership, without stepping over each other. We created leadership schools, to take those who wanted to take the reins, and teach them the foundations of our politics so they could better serve their people. We all attended so we could learn and understand the concepts of blood and soil, setting good examples, being fair in the judgement of state matters, and dealing with former enemies. It was a proud moment when I was awarded my crimson leadership colors, signifying my status as a Gauleiter.

Is there anything you regret?

Rudolf: The war, very simple. The war derailed everything we had planned to accomplish. Our goal was to make a state that was of the highest culture, where the poorest felt like a king. Sickness was being cured and healthy minds and bodies were the watchword of our time. Science was seeing a relationship between smoking and defects including cancer, so we launched the slogan “German women do not smoke” among others to encourage healthy living. For the first time in our history, our young were taught to achieve their dreams, not just the well off, but all children. The lewdness of the Weimar era was gone, the pimps, pornographers, lecher’s, and drug dealers removed to camps or fled.

We had a society that was happy and healthy, full of confidence and charity, the poor among us raised up to a level of equality never seen before. Under NS, no one was looked down on if you did not come from money. Some of the wealthy aristocrats did not like this, as they believed in stations, they were rebuffed and exposed as the greedy fools they were. The July 20 traitors came from the ranks of these types, the arrogant wealthy fools who never quite understood what we wanted to achieve. All they chose to believe were the lies the allies were feeding our people with their radio broadcasts. I believe foreign agents worked with these traitors and encouraged them.

We did not ask for war, we did not start the war, and we tried every way short of surrendering to avoid the war. Poland was a thorn, and the border issues were just like the Sudetenland, some of the German minority were attacked and no nation can tolerate its citizens, or forcefully removed citizens, from being attacked and killed. We had to fight to protect what was ours as it was morally correct, the allies use this as the de facto reason for war, but if circumstances reversed they would, and did (the Boers), do the same. The war robbed the Fuhrer of all that he fought for and believed in. It tainted NS, as some had to endure unimaginable suffering and loss, that is all that will be remembered in their minds. The allies happily tout the war as the ultimate goal of NS, which is not true we only wanted fair peace.

What about the accusations that you oversaw the killing of terminally ill and mentally ill?

Rudolf: Very good questions you ask, please let me have time to explain a very serious and misunderstood topic. There are today claims by the church and others that we secretly ordered the killing of sick patients in mental hospitals. This just is not true; remember I said we would stand blameless before our judge. Part of my duties to my Gau were to step into sensitive issues. One issue was when someone is terminally ill, with no hope of recovery; they should have the right to die without pain and suffering. The church was against this, as was the press, believing no one has the right to end a life. There were those who wanted to end their lives, and asked doctors to help them, as they were in pain and had no hope. We simply allowed doctors to grant the request.

Other nations in Europe practiced this, and still do to this day it is nothing new. When someone is suffering, it is crueler to keep him or her in that state than to end the suffering. I believe in the future this will become the accepted thing to do, without the judgment that we receive.

The criminally insane, those who killed and enjoyed it with no remorse, due to being sick, were ordered to pay for their crimes with their lives as it was traumatic for the victims to know the killer was living when their relation was taken. We allowed doctors to interview and study the person, and their bodies were given to science to understand more about the brain and what may have caused such behavior. We had to intervene sometimes, as lawyers would argue they should be spared for such and such a reason, the answer was always the victims trump their killer. The church opposed this also.

The mentally ill were classified as to their prognosis and if they had family. We wanted to show mercy to all, but our goal was to raise up our people and make them healthy. A healthy people are not defective people. We built or created homes to house the ill, many times asking family to step in to assist with keeping a loved one. If they refused, or if no family could be found, the state took over. Germany had many home where the mentally ill were cared for, and they had some of the best care in the world. There was no goal to kill these unfortunate victims of defective unrestrained breeding, or bad genetics.

Only in some very unusual cases, where there was no family and the person was suffering, was a merciful death given to avoid any further pain. The medical staff had to all concur, and the government had to agree that it was in the best interest of the patient to end their suffering. It was humane, and nothing sinister, much like the Lebensborn homes that Jewish film directors love to mock, making them out to be sex farms. Untrue allied propaganda made something merciful and helpful out to be cruel and evil.

We never forcefully took people against the family’s will, as is claimed today. During the war, a home in my Gau used their patients to make baskets for mothers who lost sons or husbands on Mother’s day. Others were taught skills to aid in the war effort like Luftschutz helpers, or growing crops to feed the home. Again, our goal was to raise the weakest in our midst up so they felt like a valuable part of our nation.

What do you remember of Hitler?

Rudolf: I remember how humane he was, how focused, and how hard he worked for our people. He demanded of us our best, as nothing less was good enough. He asked that we always be charitable and open; to always be upstanding leaders of high morals. Attend to our peoples needs and be just. He was a leader that only comes once in a nation’s history. When he was forced to remove his beloved brown uniform, for the gray of war, he was disheartened, but ready for the fight. He asked us to be hard and steady, to add resolve to our creed, and to gird our loins with the righteousness of our cause. All the while, he hoped for peace, that somehow the jealousy and hatred the allies had of us, would ease and common sense would prevail.

An example of the charity he asked us to have was in 1938 a woman petitioned me, saying her husband was a member of the KPD and sent to prison in 1934 for urging a revolt against the Fuhrer and attacking a shop owner who was a party comrade. She was ill, and no one could care for the children. The Fuhrer was granting amnesty for all former communists and I felt this might fall under amnesty. I asked the prisoner be brought to my office and spoke with him. He had been well treated and was surprised as he believed we would mistreat him, he was amazed at how we transformed Germany, he admired that NS had many of the goals he had believed in.

I ordered his release, and a year later, he visited showing me his party badge and book. He was proud to be a NS and never forgot how we treated him. Even after the war, he defended us against allied claims, even though he could have claimed status as a persecuted person. The Fuhrer wanted to create a state where there was no hatred or malice and this was a good example. So in short, I held, and still hold the Fuhrer in very high regards. He is forever the Fuhrer of our Greater German Reich.

What do you remember about the war?

Rudolf: It was not the best of times for Germany that is for sure. I remember the declaration of war we made against Poland, since Russian agreed to a pact we were sure England would not declare war as they would not want to fight Germany and Russia. We were wrong on this count, and frankly shocked when England gave us a declaration of war, but not against Russia. This showed England’s hand. They said they were protecting Poland against aggression, but when Russian invaded, they turned a blind eye, just declaring that we were the threat to peace.

We took our protests to other venues hoping they would see the truth that Poland had indeed caused our reaction, but it appeared England and her wealth was able to go forward with the war they so badly wanted. Our economy was strong and quickly growing to outpace England’s, and just like in the first war, she would not allow any challengers to her supremacy. Therefore, England chose war instead of negotiations, mocking the Fuhrer and his efforts at peaceful solutions to old problems. I believe that sadly, England needed to rebuild her crumbled economy and as many nations know, the best way to recover from hard times is a war. Churchill had the ulterior motive of destroying the nation he hated, even if it meant destroying his own.

It was with a heavy heart that the Fuhrer and the Reichstag took our nation to war. We saw no other options, almost immediately the US made it clear they sided with England and had no intention of working out a peace deal. Our U-boats were tracked and hunted illegally, warnings sent to England regarding presence of German units, and we believed German units to have been illegally attacked and shot down or sunk. When the Fuhrer issued the declaration of war against the US, many today say it was foolish, but we were already engaged in a proxy war.

We are accused of attacking peaceful nations, and indeed a few were, but for the most part England pressured our neighbors to not help us in any way. We had to go through the Low Countries to get to France, the Balkans to oust the English from Greece, and Norway to secure our trade with Sweden. Russia appeared to be poised to bring the war to us in a sneak attack, but we hit them first. Our intelligence grossly underestimated their fighting capability.

My Gau was lucky in that we did not have large cities that were bombed, so except for Halle we escaped the slaughter so many other cities went through. I did see so much damage in other areas, and always did my best to attend to the survivors and give them help. The war was a very hard time and touched most every German, when the end came I remember being very depressed as what we had worked so hard to build, was destroyed.

What happened to you at the end of the war?

Rudolf: I knew I had done nothing wrong, so after the surrender I was hearing how the allies were executing all NSDAP leadership so I avoided capture by staying with comrades who protected us. The English eventually arrested me and I was treated very poorly. They wanted me to admit to all sorts of crimes and charges, which I would not, but I understood why some former comrades did; the beatings and mental torture were too much for many. They admitted to whatever the allies wanted to pin on them. I was lucky as I was never sent to a foreign area to govern, and had always stayed in the Reich and no one was claiming victim status against me.

Against all civil rules of war, the allies turned me over the Russians, who at first were far nicer. They wanted to ask about how I ran my Gau, how NS was so popular to the masses, and what I knew about the Fuhrer and other leaders. I did not mind talking as it was casual conversations. However, this soon turned to fear and terror when they refused to release me, I have a feeling it was because I told them I had no desire to learn the ways of Marx and Lenin, whom I despised as Jewish criminals. They tried me for being a major accessory and sentenced me to 25 years. Made up evidence and vague accusations is all they presented, a total sham.

I was released finally in 1955 along with tens of thousands of other illegally held former soldiers and servants of the Reich. I returned home to a nation that was rebuilding but firmly under occupation, and was shocked to see so many former communists and Jews being put into high officers again, it was like Weimar all over. This time though they lacked the arrogance they once held.

I have heard that NSDAP leaders were referred to as “Golden Pheasants” did you ever hear this?

Rudolf: Not until recently, and believe it was just an innocent nickname, I understand authors have used the term to show that the armed forces opposed the NSDAP. This is not true, we had a very good relationship with the front. I always met soldiers coming home, gave celebrations for high award holders, and watched over their families while they served. I would put this term on par with “old hare”, a term used for seasoned veterans. We had the gratitude of many soldiers and were grateful for them.

Where do you see the world in the future?

Rudolf: The Fuhrer had a dream of a society of not just Germans, but all Europeans united due to the common bonds we share. Race, religion, culture, and history all unite us, yet our history is one of war and hatred. He tried to stop this, but sadly, war made it worse in some respects. I believe due largely to the allies sending in agents to stir up people against us. If we had an effective person, Like Heydrich, who was uniting the Czech people to help us, they were killed. I do not believe he was bad at all; he was kind and charitable to the people, not a killer in the least. He was killed because he was so effective.

The allies claim agents were sent in to kill him as he was too cruel to the Czech people, they really must think people are stupid. If your enemy is cruel to a subjugated people, you want that, as the people would be more willing to help you, you do not kill someone doing you a favor. I met him many times; he was a man of honor and civility.

As Jews become more powerful I fear for the future, we gave Europe a respite by removing them from power and breaking their stranglehold, but it did not last. Today I see Jewish names and faces in the papers elected to oversee large firms. Lawyers, bankers, newspaper editors, and other high profile jobs are again getting overrepresented. As their power grows, their war against us will get stronger and stronger. People refuse to see it now, but in the future, they will not be able to hide from it.

Already in South Africa, they are plotting to overthrow a white Christian minority and give it to communist led people that hate the whites. I would like to see Germany reunited, but as long as the Soviets rule that will not happen, we gave them a very bloody nose. The US is at the peak of her power and I can only see degeneracy and laziness being a reason for your nation to be in trouble. It is no secret that when white Christian nations allow in foreign aliens, that the decline has started. I will leave you with wise words the Fuhrer said to us in a meeting once “A people with a will to live, love their ancestors and honor their past by protecting their future.” If our nations fail to live by this, then who knows what will happen.

The Church’s claim today that they opposed Hitler and that NS was against the Church, what do you say?

Rudolf: Utter rubbish, they only told the victors what they wanted to hear. The Fuhrer had a deep love and respect for religion, where we ran afoul is that we refused to give any one denomination our endorsement. The Pope had a very good relationship with the Fuhrer and party. In fact, we ordered large sums of money to go to restoring and building houses of God. Christianity was our faith for two thousand years and was not going anywhere. What might seem like attacks on the Church was NS trying to remove the Jewish influence. We had a Church system heavily infiltrated by the very people who opposed Christ and hated the Cross. This caused many issues as we forced them out and some Christians refused to understand why. We NS had no time for the petty infighting and had to be tough on the flock sometimes, but we protected the Church, and I attended many SS weddings in Church’s. There was no war on the Church; we honored our Creator by protecting our past.

If you could correct any accusation about the Third Reich and Hitler, what would it be?

Rudolf: Oh boy, where would I begin, the Jews probably are the biggest misunderstanding and lied about, however the one that bothers me the most is the lie that we forced our young women to bear babies for the Fuhrer. I feel that lie did more to insult and mock the morals we fought to instill. Time Life recently released a ww2 series, and they claim that during a party rally 10 thousand German girls became pregnant. Utter nonsense. They would like the reader to believe that a big sex party took place under the stands, and that our morals were a joke.

The truth is that Germany had a whole generation decimated due to the first war; our goal was to increase the birth rate to sustain the nation. If your birthrate slows down, there are less people to care for the aging. Therefore, we encouraged motherhood, by making it easy to wed, giving free homes for couples so they could focus on a family and not working themselves too hard, and rewarding couples for having children. It is true we discouraged the defective from bearing children as it would be a burden on the people, and not natural. However, if you were a healthy woman we made it very easy to have and support a family, something that today is being eroded, just like in the Weimar era.

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